Legislature(1999 - 2000)

05/12/1999 08:50 AM House FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
           HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                              
              May 12, 1999                                                                                                      
                 8:50 A.M.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
TAPE HFC 99 - 129, Side 1                                                                                                       
TAPE HFC 99 - 129, Side 2                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice Chair Bunde called the House Finance Committee meeting                                                                     
to order at 8:50 a.m.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder    Representative Grussendorf                                                                                   
Vice Chair Bunde   Representative Kohring                                                                                       
Representative Austerman  Representative Moses                                                                                  
Representative J. Davies   Representative Williams                                                                              
Representative Foster                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault and Representative G. Davis were absent                                                                     
from the meeting.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Fred Dyson; Carl Rose, Executive Director,                                                                       
Alaska Association of School Boards, Juneau; Eddy Jeans,                                                                        
Manager, School Finance Section, Department of Education;                                                                       
Wes Keller, Staff, Representative Dyson;                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Bob Shefchik, Fairbanks North Star Borough School District,                                                                     
Fairbanks; Royce Chapman, Fairbanks North Star Borough                                                                          
School District, Fairbanks; Carol Comeau, Anchorage School                                                                      
District, Anchorage; Kathi Gillespie, Anchorage School                                                                          
District, Anchorage; Greg Miller, Chair, Policy Committee,                                                                      
Aquarium Charter School, Anchorage; Debbie Rothermel,                                                                           
Academy Charter School, Matsu; Claire McConnell Academy                                                                         
Charter School, Matsu; Cheryl Turner, Matsu; Ann Riggs,                                                                         
Academy Charter School, Matsu; Barbara Gerard, Matsu;                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HB 191 "An Act relating to charter schools; and providing                                                                       
for an effective date."                                                                                                         
HOUSE BILL NO. 191                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
"An Act relating to charter schools; and providing for                                                                          
an effective date."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRED DYSON, SPONSOR testified in support of HB 191.                                                                     
He provided members with a proposed committee substitute, 1-                                                                    
LS0598\M, 5/11/99(copy on file).                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Dyson observed that legislation was passed                                                                       
authorizing charter schools (in 1995). House Bill 191 would                                                                     
aid charter schools in dealing with some of the difficulties                                                                    
they have experienced. The legislation extends the length of                                                                    
a charter school's contract. The current five-year contract                                                                     
has inhibited some schools from acquiring facility leases.                                                                      
The legislation also requires charter schools to implement                                                                      
exit exams, raise funds, and addresses funding levels. He                                                                       
observed that larger schools receive more money than smaller                                                                    
schools. He acknowledged that school financing is complex.                                                                      
The pupil funding level for children in school districts is                                                                     
$7,500 thousand dollars per child, while charter schools                                                                        
receive $3,500 per child. He observed the difficulty of                                                                         
acquiring start-up funding for charter schools.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Dyson noted that affordable space is another                                                                     
issue facing charter schools. The proposed committee                                                                            
substitute requires that school districts give charter                                                                          
schools some facilities funding on a pro rata basis equal to                                                                    
the cheapest facility cost in the district. There would be                                                                      
no associated cost to the state of Alaska. The only fiscal                                                                      
cost to the state would be the additional staff needed by                                                                       
the Department of Education. Federal grant money to                                                                             
implement charter schools is ending. The Department of                                                                          
Education needs to find a new funding source to replace                                                                         
federal money used to administer charter schools. He                                                                            
maintained that it is "unfair" to use the fiscal note on HB
191 as a funding source for administration.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kohring MOVED to ADOPT proposed committee                                                                        
substitute, 1-LS0598\M, 5/11/99. There being NO OBJECTION,                                                                      
it was so ordered.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
In response to a question by Representative Austerman,                                                                          
Representative Dyson acknowledged that the facility charge                                                                      
would be an unfunded mandate to the school districts. He                                                                        
added that some schools would be able to utilize existing                                                                       
vacant buildings. He noted that it could delay the need for                                                                     
additional buildings.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
In response to a question by Representative Grussendorf,                                                                        
Representative Dyson reiterated that many charter school                                                                        
organizations have increased efforts to acquire accounting                                                                      
skills.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Bunde pointed out that PTA's raise money within                                                                      
school districts. He questioned if charter schools can also                                                                     
raise funding through PTA's. Representative Dyson responded                                                                     
that the section regarding fund raising was included at the                                                                     
request of the Department of Education.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies questioned how the legislation                                                                         
would handle a situation where the school district offers a                                                                     
charter school a facility that is not excepted.                                                                                 
Representative Dyson responded that he felt that the school                                                                     
district "is absolutely in the driver's seat".                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
WES KELLER, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE DYSON added that the                                                                          
legislation is in the context of a contract between the                                                                         
charter school and the school district. The current                                                                             
restraints would remain.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Bunde questioned if the legislation would change                                                                     
the ratio of administrators to students achieved in SB 36.                                                                      
Representative Dyson did not think that the legislation                                                                         
would affect the student/administrator ratio. He pointed out                                                                    
that charter schools have flexibility in the teacher/student                                                                    
and administrator/teacher ratios. His experience was that                                                                       
charter schools have weighted these ratios toward classroom                                                                     
participation.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies expressed concern with a simple pro                                                                    
ration. He noted that charter school students could utilize                                                                     
gymnasium and other facilities at existing schools.                                                                             
Representative Dyson noted that these issues are negotiated                                                                     
in the context of the contract. Representative Dyson did not                                                                    
think that the legislation required funding of gymnasium                                                                        
facilities for charter schools. He pointed out that not all                                                                     
schools in school districts have gymnasiums.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Keller explained that page 3, line 11 addresses the                                                                         
issue.  Representative J. Davies argued that the language is                                                                    
open to interpretation.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CARL ROSE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ALASKA ASSOCIATION OF SCHOOL                                                                     
BOARDS, JUNEAU provided information on HB 191. He recalled                                                                      
concerns regarding the original legislation, start-up costs,                                                                    
local determination, revocation, and equity. He referred to                                                                     
section 2. He noted that school districts might not want to                                                                     
grant a charter for any of the items in section 2. He                                                                           
expressed concern with the dollars generated in charter                                                                         
schools. He pointed out that regular instructional children                                                                     
generate the bulk of funding. However school districts must                                                                     
use this funding to support mandated special needs. He                                                                          
stressed that regular instructional students receive what is                                                                    
left after mandated expenses. He questioned how itemized                                                                        
accounting and cost of administration could be identified                                                                       
for purposes of funding charter school students should                                                                          
receive. Since 1986, funding for public education has                                                                           
remained relatively flat. There would be additional costs                                                                       
for charter schools that are not housed within a regular                                                                        
school. He maintained that charter schools would be funded                                                                      
from existing resources. There is already a tremendous                                                                          
amount of pressure for existing resources. He felt that                                                                         
school districts with charter schools would be adversely                                                                        
affected by the mandates to provide charter schools with                                                                        
some facilities funding on a pro rata basis equal to the                                                                        
cheapest facility cost in the district, to itemize costs and                                                                    
provide manners in the same manner as other students.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CAROL COMEAU, ANCHORAGE SCHOOL DISTRICT, ANCHORAGE testified                                                                    
via teleconference. She stressed the need to review the                                                                         
committee substitute. She maintained that the legislation                                                                       
would impact the Anchorage School District. She asserted                                                                        
that additional funding for charter schools would take away                                                                     
from their school district. The Anchorage School District                                                                       
has a space problem. There are already over 140 relocatable                                                                     
classrooms. The legislation is an unfunded mandate that                                                                         
would require reductions in the next year's budget. She                                                                         
questioned the intent of the legislation.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
BOB SHEFCHIK, FAIRBANKS NORTH STAR BOROUGH SCHOOL DISTRICT,                                                                     
FAIRBANKS testified via teleconference. He stated that the                                                                      
School District is in general support of charter schools. He                                                                    
acknowledged that charter school funding is insufficient. He                                                                    
disagreed with the method of solving the problem. He agreed                                                                     
with section 1.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Shefchik discussed portions of the bill. He acknowledged                                                                    
that the Fairbanks North Star Borough School District could                                                                     
itemize costs. He noted that most charters do not have                                                                          
accountant expertise. He expressed concern with section 3.                                                                      
He noted that section 3 fails to recognize the difference in                                                                    
program costs. Costs range from well behave, easy to teach                                                                      
children to special needs. He noted that their school board                                                                     
currently treats charter schools differently based on their                                                                     
population. He expressed concerns with inclusion of special                                                                     
education funding, impact aid, targeted federal funds,                                                                          
contracts for operation of on base schools, tuition funding                                                                     
for special students and optional excess contribution. He                                                                       
questioned if the state can legally mandate how local option                                                                    
contributions are spent.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Shefchik discussed subsection (2) in section 3,                                                                             
facilities cost. He pointed out that this section does not                                                                      
recognize that capital and operating funding are separate.                                                                      
School buildings are provided through bonds.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Shefchik asked that the legislation be held and reviewed                                                                    
by legislative legal counsel. He acknowledged that the                                                                          
changes in SB 36 did not adequately address the needs of                                                                        
charter schools. He concluded that the legislation would                                                                        
help charter schools at the expense of other schools.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Dyson reviewed page 2, line 31. He noted that                                                                    
this allows per student, per school cost to take into                                                                           
consideration administrative or other services provided.  He                                                                    
emphasized that the intent is that contracts allow for the                                                                      
level of service that the school takes or receives from the                                                                     
district or provides for themselves. He added that charters                                                                     
are at the discretion of the school district.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kohring spoke in support of the legislation.                                                                     
He recounted experiences with charter schools. He observed                                                                      
that charter schools have been able to put together                                                                             
facilities at reduced costs through volunteer involvement.                                                                      
He noted that the Midnight Sun Charter School operates at                                                                       
$1,700 per student.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
(Tape Change, HFC 99 - 129, Side 2)                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
DEBBIE ROTHERMEL, ACADEMY CHARTER SCHOOL, MATSU testified                                                                       
via teleconference in support of the legislation. She                                                                           
stressed that the intent is to receive an equal opportunity                                                                     
to flourish within the school system. She maintained that                                                                       
existing charter schools are doing a good job. She noted                                                                        
that the Academy Charter School spent $50 thousand dollars                                                                      
to improve their facilities in addition to volunteer effort.                                                                    
She urged the Committee to maintain its commitment to the                                                                       
charter school system. She noted that even matching funds                                                                       
for facilities would be helpful.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
KATHI GILLESPIE, ANCHORAGE SCHOOL DISTRICT, ANCHORAGE                                                                           
testified via teleconference. She noted that the Anchorage                                                                      
School District has concerns with the legislation. She                                                                          
observed that they are concerned that the operating budget,                                                                     
as proposed, would prioritize charter school students above                                                                     
other students. She emphasized that the facility cost would                                                                     
be an unfunded mandate. Rental money would come out of the                                                                      
general fund. She noted that children housed in portables                                                                       
are not allowed the option of renting space. She asked for                                                                      
clarification on the fund raising issue and suggested that                                                                      
if it is a problem than the problem should be fixed for all                                                                     
students. She asked when does fund raising become tuition.                                                                      
She observed that there was no fiscal note with the original                                                                    
passage of the charter school legislation. She asked that                                                                       
the Department of Education and school districts provide                                                                        
fiscal notes. She stressed the need to discuss the                                                                              
legislation with staff, parents and other interested                                                                            
parties.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
GREG MILLER, POLICY COMMITTEE, CHAIR, AQUARIAN CHARTER                                                                          
SCHOOL, ANCHORAGE testified via teleconference. He discussed                                                                    
section 5. He felt that the existing administrative ratio of                                                                    
4.31 percent is working. He stressed that charter schools                                                                       
can provide education at reduced costs.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Miller discussed facility funding. He maintained that                                                                       
charter schools could provide facilities for less than                                                                          
school districts. The Aquarium Charter School is currently                                                                      
without a facility. They have been in portable classrooms.                                                                      
They have arranged to rent space for the next year at $500                                                                      
dollars per student. The school district is not willing to                                                                      
help with this cost. He maintained that the issue is simple.                                                                    
Local money should be passed on or a facility provided. He                                                                      
stressed that every school needs a roof. He asserted that it                                                                    
is not an unfunded mandate. He stated that they are not                                                                         
asking for anything less then what other students receive.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CLAIRE MCCONNELL, ACADEMY CHARTER SCHOOL MATSU testified via                                                                    
teleconference in support of the legislation. She stressed                                                                      
that the Academy Charter School does a lot with very little.                                                                    
Their students are in portable classrooms. Only two of their                                                                    
classrooms have bathrooms nearby.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ROYCE CHAPMAN, FAIRBANKS NORTH STAR BOROUGH SCHOOL DISTRICT,                                                                    
FAIRBANKS testified via teleconference. He stressed that the                                                                    
School Board is supportive of charter schools, but expressed                                                                    
concern with the legislation. He stressed that the                                                                              
legislation imposes an idea as to what is best for the                                                                          
Fairbanks North Star Borough School District and its charter                                                                    
schools. He noted that the same problem does not exist in                                                                       
every school in every district. He acknowledged the intent,                                                                     
but did not support the solution. He stated that the best                                                                       
solution would be to allow affected communities to solve                                                                        
their own problems. He stressed the point is who decides                                                                        
what is spent. He maintained that the legislature is not the                                                                    
best place for the decision.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHERYL TURNER, MATSU testified via teleconference in support                                                                    
of HB 191. She expressed support for Representative Dyson.                                                                      
She expressed support for a changing the contract length                                                                        
from 5 to 10 years.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ANN RIGGS, ACADEMY CHARTER SCHOOL, MATSU testified via                                                                          
teleconference in support of HB 191. She stressed that                                                                          
charter schools are a great addition to the school system.                                                                      
She emphasized the amount of parental involvement in the                                                                        
creation of charter schools.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BARBARA GERARD, MATSU testified via teleconference in                                                                           
support of HB 191. She maintained that clarification and                                                                        
direction is needed to protect funding for charter schools.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
GLEN BIEGEL, ANCHORAGE testified via teleconference in                                                                          
support of HB 191. He noted that all charter schools are not                                                                    
equal. He emphasized that if there is no roof there is no                                                                       
school.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HB 191 was HELD in Committee for further consideration.                                                                         
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
The meeting adjourned at 10:05 a.m.                                                                                             
House Finance Committee 6 5/12/99 a.m.                                                                                          

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